@mmclean when you use the first option you presented with symmetry expansion to 3dva to clustering, what downstream processing is still “allowed”? Since the particles are symmetry expanded I assume another helical refinement wouldn’t be, because some of the particles are not true particles. So the only thing to do after clustering would be local refinements, or to manually unsymmetrize the particles (for example Reverse symmetry expansion? [Feature request] ) and use those to do a new helical refinement?